I have a ZD3 going into a ZA3 in stereo via XLR. Everyone talks about sparkos op amps being a major improvement. The question is do I swap the op amp(s) in the ZD3 or ZA3? If it's both, that's just an astronomical cost and likely worth doing. So swap the DAC or the amp op amps? Thoughts?
DAC Op amp roll ZD3 or ZA3?
- Thread starter LBUCCI
- Start date
Infinity Poodle
New member
I've heard that swapping the opamps in the ZD3 actually decreases sound quality, but I am definitely NOT an expert. There is a video on Passion for Sound (Youtube) where he mentions this. Anyone else have any thoughts as I have the same question as LBUCCI? BTW, swapping the L/R opamps in the ZA3 definitely improves audio quality, most seem to recommend the Sparkos, Oracle II-02's or Muse 02's as far as I know. I've tried the cheaper OPA1656's and the have been great so far. The above Youtuber also suggests the Burson V7 Vivids for the ZA3 as he says that the Sparkos are a little too "smooth" for the ZA3.
The advice I received (from Google’s AI Gemini) is that the ZA3 is primarily an amplifier of sound it receives from the ZD3 preamp. So the biggest impact will be heard by upgrading the ZD3.
Despite the fact that it’s advice from a non human, that made sense to me and it sounds great.
Here’s the text from Gemini
Okay, that clarifies things significantly! If your primary listening setup involves using the Fosi Audio ZD3 as a preamplifier to the ZA3 via XLR cables for stereo listening, then the focus shifts primarily to the ZD3's output stage. Here's a breakdown:
Key Considerations:
* ZD3 as a Preamp:
* In this configuration, the ZD3's output stage, specifically the portion that drives the XLR outputs, becomes the most critical.
* Therefore, upgrading the op-amps associated with the XLR output circuitry in the ZD3 will have the most direct impact on the signal sent to the ZA3.
* XLR Benefits:
* XLR connections are balanced, which helps reduce noise and interference. This is why many audiophiles prefer them for high-quality stereo setups.
* To take full advantage of the balanced XLR connections, it is very important that the op-amps that drive those outputs are of a high quality.
* ZA3's Role:
* The ZA3, in this case, acts as a power amplifier, amplifying the signal it receives from the ZD3. So, while its internal op-amps are still important, the ZD3's output stage will have a greater influence on the overall sound.
Op-Amp Upgrade Recommendations:
* ZD3 XLR Output Stage:
* Prioritize upgrading the op-amps that directly drive the XLR outputs of the ZD3. This will ensure the cleanest and most accurate signal transfer to the ZA3.
* According to some users of the Fosi Audio ZD3, there are opamps that are specifically for the XLR outputs. So those are the ones that must be upgraded.
* ZA3 Preamp Stage:
* While the ZD3's output is the primary focus, upgrading the ZA3's pre-amplifier stage op-amps can still provide further improvements to the overall sound quality. This will refine the signal amplification process within the ZA3 itself.
In Summary:
* For your specific setup, focus on upgrading the op-amps responsible for the ZD3's XLR output.
* After that, if you still want to improve the sound quality, then upgrade the op-amps in the ZA3.
I hope this helps!
Despite the fact that it’s advice from a non human, that made sense to me and it sounds great.
Here’s the text from Gemini
Okay, that clarifies things significantly! If your primary listening setup involves using the Fosi Audio ZD3 as a preamplifier to the ZA3 via XLR cables for stereo listening, then the focus shifts primarily to the ZD3's output stage. Here's a breakdown:
Key Considerations:
* ZD3 as a Preamp:
* In this configuration, the ZD3's output stage, specifically the portion that drives the XLR outputs, becomes the most critical.
* Therefore, upgrading the op-amps associated with the XLR output circuitry in the ZD3 will have the most direct impact on the signal sent to the ZA3.
* XLR Benefits:
* XLR connections are balanced, which helps reduce noise and interference. This is why many audiophiles prefer them for high-quality stereo setups.
* To take full advantage of the balanced XLR connections, it is very important that the op-amps that drive those outputs are of a high quality.
* ZA3's Role:
* The ZA3, in this case, acts as a power amplifier, amplifying the signal it receives from the ZD3. So, while its internal op-amps are still important, the ZD3's output stage will have a greater influence on the overall sound.
Op-Amp Upgrade Recommendations:
* ZD3 XLR Output Stage:
* Prioritize upgrading the op-amps that directly drive the XLR outputs of the ZD3. This will ensure the cleanest and most accurate signal transfer to the ZA3.
* According to some users of the Fosi Audio ZD3, there are opamps that are specifically for the XLR outputs. So those are the ones that must be upgraded.
* ZA3 Preamp Stage:
* While the ZD3's output is the primary focus, upgrading the ZA3's pre-amplifier stage op-amps can still provide further improvements to the overall sound quality. This will refine the signal amplification process within the ZA3 itself.
In Summary:
* For your specific setup, focus on upgrading the op-amps responsible for the ZD3's XLR output.
* After that, if you still want to improve the sound quality, then upgrade the op-amps in the ZA3.
I hope this helps!
SeVen-SeVen
New member
Hello LBUCCI,
The best change, of course, is if you upgrade everything to the SS3602. I would recommend starting with the ZD3. Two SS3602s will definitely bring a significant improvement. However, keep in mind that the SS3602s require up to 100 hours of break-in time. These are truly high-end chips. They're constantly improving. I can also recommend the Studer 900 linear power supply for the ZD3. That also makes a big difference. The same goes for the Tertullus P029 power cable. Ultimately, the best thing about your combo is that you can upgrade gradually. So you don't have to spend a lot of money right from the start. Do it gradually. This has the advantage that the anticipation never fades.
The best change, of course, is if you upgrade everything to the SS3602. I would recommend starting with the ZD3. Two SS3602s will definitely bring a significant improvement. However, keep in mind that the SS3602s require up to 100 hours of break-in time. These are truly high-end chips. They're constantly improving. I can also recommend the Studer 900 linear power supply for the ZD3. That also makes a big difference. The same goes for the Tertullus P029 power cable. Ultimately, the best thing about your combo is that you can upgrade gradually. So you don't have to spend a lot of money right from the start. Do it gradually. This has the advantage that the anticipation never fades.
I'm a certified audio engineer who has been doing DIY audio for 20+ years.
If anyone out there is sooo sure that they have great end-game advice for you, and literally have no certifications, or years and years of professional or DIY experience, (or better yet all three), or has not successfully completed an audiogram (I have with 97% hearing intact) you can take their opinion with a huge rock of salt. Like the Titanic iceberg size of salt.
Op-amp rolling is pretty much a dark art, because you are messing with optimized circuits as a caveman would if they found a computer.
Do I do it? YES. Is it fun? YES. Do I think it makes audible differences? YES.
Understanding why there are audible differences is the key. We all want to think we can 'cheat the system' by rolling some little chips, like wannabe audio wizards.
What science has shown time and time again (go down the rabbit hole and check the available data online) is that most of these audible differences are 99-100% psychological in origin (I left a 1% margin for human error there lol).
I've listened to a lot of op-amp comparisons with my music enjoyment setup that is 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz +/- 6 dB as measured using REW and Sonarworks SoundID and two different calibration microphones (Sonarworks and Umik-1). That kind of response, while not the more ruler-flat setup I use for audio work (60 Hz - 20000 Hz +/- 1 dB), is perhaps better than 90% of most listening setups.
I currently use OPA1612s in all my Fosi gear, and I prefer them to the sound to the stock NE5532s and LME49720s that came preinstalled in my ZD3, V3 Monos and ZA3. The reasons for this are probably 100% psychological. I was most likely seduced by the better spec sheet on the 1612s and their reputation as being used in many reference standard audio products of the last decade. Or I introduced noise and distortion into my system and found it pleasurable.
I've since decided to direct my efforts into where there is plenty of science that backs me up, and that is improving my room's acoustics.
Anyway, have fun with the op-amp rolling, and don't be surprised if you end up realizing that your room acoustics and psychology biases are your biggest issues when it comes to achieving higher-fidelity audio and that this is where you should have been focusing your time and money all along.
Cheers
beacons.ai/quocheiser
If anyone out there is sooo sure that they have great end-game advice for you, and literally have no certifications, or years and years of professional or DIY experience, (or better yet all three), or has not successfully completed an audiogram (I have with 97% hearing intact) you can take their opinion with a huge rock of salt. Like the Titanic iceberg size of salt.
Op-amp rolling is pretty much a dark art, because you are messing with optimized circuits as a caveman would if they found a computer.
Do I do it? YES. Is it fun? YES. Do I think it makes audible differences? YES.
Understanding why there are audible differences is the key. We all want to think we can 'cheat the system' by rolling some little chips, like wannabe audio wizards.
What science has shown time and time again (go down the rabbit hole and check the available data online) is that most of these audible differences are 99-100% psychological in origin (I left a 1% margin for human error there lol).
I've listened to a lot of op-amp comparisons with my music enjoyment setup that is 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz +/- 6 dB as measured using REW and Sonarworks SoundID and two different calibration microphones (Sonarworks and Umik-1). That kind of response, while not the more ruler-flat setup I use for audio work (60 Hz - 20000 Hz +/- 1 dB), is perhaps better than 90% of most listening setups.
I currently use OPA1612s in all my Fosi gear, and I prefer them to the sound to the stock NE5532s and LME49720s that came preinstalled in my ZD3, V3 Monos and ZA3. The reasons for this are probably 100% psychological. I was most likely seduced by the better spec sheet on the 1612s and their reputation as being used in many reference standard audio products of the last decade. Or I introduced noise and distortion into my system and found it pleasurable.
I've since decided to direct my efforts into where there is plenty of science that backs me up, and that is improving my room's acoustics.
Anyway, have fun with the op-amp rolling, and don't be surprised if you end up realizing that your room acoustics and psychology biases are your biggest issues when it comes to achieving higher-fidelity audio and that this is where you should have been focusing your time and money all along.
Cheers
beacons.ai/quocheiser
stevetech5150
New member
Our responses to everything we see, hear, touch & smell are psychological. Ever throw the curtains open to a brand new day and be greeted by a blue sky and sunshine? Is that response different from opening those curtains to gray skies and rain? Same with audio in my opinion. Sounds evoke our internal responses due to genetic programming and memory. On a more related note, I can tell you that I have acoustically treated my room for listening and I A/B gear all of the time and say with a very high degree of confidence that I do hear differences in transient responses, frequency response, dynamic range variances etc. when changing gear as well as changing the circuitry (op-amps) that an audio signal passes through prior to hitting my ear drum then processed by my brain with all of those beautiful psychological responses they evoke. I don't agree that we are trying to "cheat the system by rolling some little chips" to be "audio wizards" by experimenting with hardware swaps anymore than you or I thinking we have it all figured out because we threw some wood blocks and insulation on our walls. This technology and subsequent "hobby" was invented by people like us, sitting in a basement or a lab soldering bits and pieces of wire, ceramics and copper together to ultimately unleash one of the best things man has invented; the ability to reproduce music anytime, anywhere in the manner which our ears tell us, "that sounds GREAT!" That's all that matters in my opinion. I spent many years in studios behind consoles made by SSL, Neve etc. being fed by some of the best microphones and pre-amps in the world, played back by some of the best sound systems I've ever heard. We swapped gear, cables, connectors, hell even fuses because they were known to have altering effects on the sound being reproduced and recorded. So to sit here and say swapping out an operational amplifier chip only produces a potential 1% net affect on the output signal just because you think its 99% psychological is just plain silliness.
